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The Brothers Gracchi - II: Populares - Extra History
🕑 Added 2016-08-12 16:49:59 +0000 UTC Tiberius fought to restore land rights to the common Roman, and he would let nothing stop him. Nothing.
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Extra History
I need to give myself a break from time to time (last week, for example) so I don't get burned out but yes, I do try to be around! It helps that I have some really good conversations here so it's a pleasure to hang out in these comments. :)
Paul Grodt
I also love that you go through and take the time to respond to everyone you can. Not all creators do that, but you regularly have been, and I genuinely appreciate that effort!
Julia Augusta
Mostly, I'm looking forward to Marius and Sulla in a future EH. Definitely my favorite rivalry in the era. (I took an upper-level course on the Roman Revolution in undergrad (roughly from this period through the Year of the Four Emperors), and it was probably my favorite class.
Byron Becker
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Extra History
Biggest note, in bold, circled five times: NOT THIS WAY
Extra History
It stands for whatever you want it to stand for! Perhaps Rice, because rice is delicious.
Extra History
Glad you're enjoying it!
Extra History
That kind of detail is what we encourage people to do their own research on, as EH is meant to be an intro series with a guiding narrative rather than a comprehensive analysis. Governmental processes would either be Lies material or fodder for a one-off further down the line!
Extra History
It's gonna get worse before it gets bet-- wait, no. It's just going to get worse. :(
Extra History
When compromise is weakness, government grinds to a halt.
Extra History
Nah, Eminent Domain existed in much harsher formats between Rome and the US, when it was basically just "I am mighty and want your land. It is mine now, so go screw." Eminent Domain was in some ways a step forward... but still mighty unpleasant.
Extra History
Here's hoping that we learn from history this time.
Extra History
History rarely does. :(
Extra History
Yeah, and at the end of this series we plan to confuse you all by talking about Tiberius Gracchus... the father of Tiberius Gracchus.
Extra History
Well, you all voted for it, but never let it be said we didn't take an opportunity and run with it.
Porcupine
Agreed. Once you warn the driver of the vehicle you are sitting in that they're heading straight into a wall and he replies "don't care, we're not changing course", you cannot be faulted for wrestling the wheel from him no matter by what means, may he "veto" all he wants. It's a very slippery slope though, and rarely justified. EDIT: the underlying assumption is that democracy doesn't die when someone does this: democracy has loooooong been dead by then, as evidenced by complete inability of the "voting" class to do anything that would lift them from their predicament by "democratic" means. Same thing continuing no matter what or who you vote for is NOT "the rule of the people".
Marco Honrade
Good episode as always but you did skip some details on how Tiberius broke precedent by skipping the Senate in the legislative process, while not technically illegal this did break tradition and remove support from moderate Senators. I think it would be good to go over Roman government and legislative process for this series and any future topics in the late Roman Republic.
RMS Oceanic
It's something of an historical running joke, particularly in the Republican era, how often names repeat. The Gaius Octavius that would later become Augustus was something like the third or fourth Gaius Octavius in a row. It's not unique to the Republic though, just wait and see how popular Flavius becomes.
Kathyrne
Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons. Yeah, that always ends well, right? Right? -Great series so far. Much Kitty Hugs!!-
Robert Griffith
Pretty sure it stood for "Republic".
Curtis Fric
Politicians that couldn't agree and compromise? GEE where have we heard THAT one before?
Paul Grodt
This is so friggin' good.
Joey's Family
Did the superhero ' s "R" stand for Robert?
Vika
*brazilian commenter writing down how to get an agrarian reform* ...huh-
TerraN0va
In the end, I think the abuse of the Tribunal Veto was equal on both sides. Octavius may have started it, but Tiberius' reaction of effectively paralyzing the entire government was in no way better than his veto for political expediency. Once you burn down the house, it does not matter much who started playing with matches.
Joo-Hwan Jun
I fear a current political party in America would put themselves in the light of 'preventing a repeat of history' by 'keeping their Octavius in power' but at what cost? The very party that stood for change and progress is becoming no different from the party they often oppose.
Joo-Hwan Jun
As an immigrant who had decided to take the oath of citizenship years ago, I fear for the events to never repeat in this country.
Sean Sarff
I'm feeling like this is where the American idea for Eminent Domain stemmed from. The idea that the government can just take the land it needs for projects and such. The state buys the illegally owned land from the estates and then redistributes it to the people of Rome with the promise of a monthly tithed of some sort.
QuakeRiley
The results of the shrinkage of the Roman middle-class had long lasting effects that went into the Empire.
Jeff DigitalAirAire
Oh, America. History may not repeat itself but it does rhyme
Christian Jensen
Despite his cause, Tiberius' antics are undermining the whole republican system. The Romans took their oaths and traditions seriously, but the Gracchi showed them that they were so much hot air and so, the whole foundation eroded away. EH haven't really touched upon another problem that was just as serious for late republican Rome: if there are no more free-holding farmers, who could afford the equipment of war, there are no soldiers to fight the wars of conquest. If we ever get to Marius, we'll see where that leads. Ultimately, though, the Roman Senatorial class was in my opinion the most irresponsible part in the end. Even minor reforms and concessions would likely have kept the desperation of the poor in check and maintained a more stable 'middle class' of free-holding farmers.
Nessf
Hmm. Fascinating. Tiberius appears to have largely had good intentions, but this is not going to end well...
Julia Augusta
Trivia: According to Plutarch, this Octavius is the ancestor (great-grandfather?) of Augustus.
Parker
Is this James' inventive way to make a political statement? If it is I like it.
