Hidden True Crime
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🕑 Added 2021-07-29 17:46:29 +0000 UTCWe're premiering this video with the public tonight, but our Patreon Supporters CAN WATCH IT NOW, AD FREE. But please! we still hope you'll be there for tonight's public premiere and participate in the chat. I'm also working on an an additional video right now that I plan to share AFTER tonight's premiere. Tonight's premiere begins at 6 pm pacific. 7 Mountain. 8 Central. and 9 Eastern
A special thank you to 'Girl on Fire' and her husband Paul for being brave enough to share their experience. Truly, this wasn't easy for them and they are nervous. They were brave enough to talk, because they felt it was important. I hope we can show them a lot of love, and I hope their voices, and the way they're received, will encourage even more people to come forward.
I learned about Girl on Fire through her YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7-S3S5wxE1NKgFXxz22tiA
I apologize about my audio. We pride ourselves on quality, but my audio fell short. I do have a working microphone now for any interviews in the future.
I did reach out to Eric Smith and Julie Rowe to see if they wanted to share or clarify anything. Julie did not immediately respond. Eric sent us this statement that is below:
STATEMENT BY ERIC SMITH: "Sometime in June or July of 2017 I stumbled across a belief system that sounded like reincarnation. I don’t remember where it came from, but I think it was mentioned in several different podcasts and websites I had visited. My curiosity grew and I began looking in the scriptures to verify the possibilities of this as a lost doctrine. I found before long that it was actually scriptural, but had likely been scrubbed out by Emperor Constantine in the events surrounding that infamous council of Nicea. I performed a lot of research and asked the Lord questions along the way and found out for myself that it is indeed a true doctrine.
Before long I was sharing this belief system I had come to know of as “Multiple Probations” with a couple close friends. One of which was Julie Rowe, and another was [name redacted]. Julie felt as I did, but [name redacted] resisted it, for a couple months. I have a lengthy journal entry from September 13 of 2017 that captured several insights and [name redacted]'s new enthusiasm for this doctrine. He became even more studious in this doctrine than me, and I rode his coattails for awhile as he learned new things, much of which did not resonate with me as true. He told me he pitched the concepts to Chad Daybell, who at first resisted it, and after another conversation or two he took to it really well.
Before long Chad and I began sharing our thoughts and beliefs about it, and I found that he had grown overzealous, developing a numeric ranking system of light and dark, ‘testing’ his neighbors, church members and leaders, and so on. Some of these thoughts came from some forums on a social media platform known as LDS Freedom Forum. But Chad took many of those thoughts and changed and added things to the ideas. This is about the time I would say Chad slipped into what I call his Tier 3 belief system, which I can explain more if we do an interview.
I listened to Chad and [name redacted]’s ideas, believing some and discarding others, meanwhile I had my own journey of beliefs which were more grounded in the scriptures and what I considered at that time to be authoritative sources. My thoughts were compiled with a friend named Greg Christiansen, who I wrote a book with entitled “Multiple Probations – A Lost Doctrine Remembered”. I felt the scriptural nature of our arguments put me on solid ground. Meanwhile, Chad had found a necklace at church one day and began using it to help him in his work of classifying people and doing ‘family history’, which was a code name for basically prying into people’s personal lives and determining who they had been, and whether they were light or dark individuals or not. I went along with some of what he was doing, but never felt good about the Light and Dark classification system.
I often asked Chad his thoughts about various historic figures and current pop artists or politicians and we would toss ideas around, but a culture of “Chad has the final say” on who is who grew out of this. Before long, Chad was going to select individual’s homes where he would share his ‘discoveries’ with them, me included. By this time, I had taken my own questions to the Lord and learned some things about my own personal history, which he ‘confirmed’, but he added some names to the list which I did not get from the Lord. One of those names was “Isaiah”, which was suggested to Chad and Julie Rowe by [name redacted]. I wrestled with that, but eventually started to own it. Today I do not believe that is true.
I believe in the doctrine of Multiple Probations, Eternal Lives, or even Reincarnation but with some major differences. The reality is most religions in the world, and most inhabitants of the world believe in reincarnation with varying elements. I think it is wrong to conflate the murderous and lustful choices of a single man [Chad Daybell] with a doctrine that is inherently beautiful, speaks of second chances, spiritual ascension, and increasing light and growth opportunities.
Concerning your comment about ‘spiritual wifery’, I honestly do not know what that is. But when you understand the possibility of having lived before, you open the door of possibly having had other spouses at various times in history. Realizing that possibility, I have found it best to be present in this life, and not dwell on possibilities of having other spouses, and certainly do not try to find and connect with them. I am grateful for my eternal marriage with my sweetheart." -ERIC SMITH JULY 28, 2021
Comments
Lauren and John Matthias
I've talked to her since it came down. I was concerned. She said they are grateful still they did the interview, but want to move forward in their healing journey and decided to take the podcast down.
Emily
I believe these things will continue when the children of the LDS faith are brain washed from childhood - when does “magic” turn off? These individuals are sitting ducks for any old psychopath that wants to take advantage of well meaning and intentioned people.
LauraK
Oh, what a visionary. He saw that someone was going to die someday. Sign me up. That they kept talking about Tammy dying, for years makes me think they must have slept together or have been flirting with it hard. The scary thing is that this type of talk is not limited to religious-based cults. Many of the people I encountered when part of Landmark "Education" used the same types of magical certainty and confidence-building language - read his energy, know his heart, I'm not just sure I know. Landmark made me realize how easy it is to program the human mind if you know how. Scary.
Lee Howell
Strange. It was still on Youtube yesterday. I hope she’s okay, maybe just taking a break.
Anissa Teree
I tried to go to her you tube (girl on fire) and it’s been taken down , I listened to it once before and wanted to revisit 🤔this case has been so difficult for so many
Collette Osburn
This is so deep. I wonder if Julie Rowe is the cult leader and advised chad on how to open up sects in different areas to get more members. Did they all follow Julie’s teachings? It seemed chad would tell Julie of his visions and she would validate them. Just a thought…
Lauri Bolland
Could Joel be the other cult member who visited Destin Thayne with Chad that one time?
Elizabeth Campbell
I am somewhat cynical about those lunatics
Elizabeth Campbell
If Julie and Chad knew Tammy was going to die 2015ish did they bother to let Tammy in on the “vision “.
Mika Morford
This is the most important interview on this case. As a lifelong member of the LDS church (although not extremely active as far as Sunday attendance in recent years), this case has captured my attention for reasons I could not explain. Hidden has taught me so much. The couple in this interview are so brave to display such vulnerability that allows us to understand so much more. This case is exposing far reaching problems that are deeply impacting families. All that is hidden needs to be exposed. Lauren & John deserve everything professional recognition possible for their work on this case. This cult needs to be brought to light.
Erica A. Zwick
Julie Rowe is a snake oil salesman, a charlatan and a grifter.
ShaRee
I’m so grateful they were willing to share their experiences. I hope they don’t suffer any repercussions. In the Julie Rowe realm, I thought I knew lots. But the hypnosis and love potion is a whole new level of concern now. I’m so glad they didn’t buy into the spiritual wifery bit and got out. That’s the importance of marriages. Paul saw things that weren’t right. Red was wise to go to Paul with what Joel was doing. They helped each other heal.
ShaRee
Taryn, good question. The LDS church does not condone energy healing and warns against paying individuals for these things.
Lori
Thank you so much, Lauren, for the interview and the other perspective. Girl On Fire and husband: your strength and bravery is admirable. There’s no shame in admitting to faults. That’s called growth. I learned a lot today, and I can see how faithful people could start to fall into the bs. It seems to have started innocently enough. Like the old boiling a frog fable. Throw a frog in boiling water he’ll hop out. Put it in tepid water and turn up the heat slowly and it’s game over for the frog. Thank goodness they had their eyes opened and we able to save themselves.
Emily Lou
Wow. Interesting interview. Thank you!!!
Joanna Mulvaney
I thought it was very convenient that when things went ok, or she wanted to do something it was because God told her to do it, but when things turned out to be bad ideas it was because of the evil Julie sex magic incantations and not at all that she liked the attention and got turned on by the foot massages.
Cynthia Carter
Wow just finished the entire interview. Girl on Fire you are amazing as is your husband. Please thank them for their bravery in helping speak for those who may have been silenced by the shame of being associated with Julie and Chad. I enjoyed this interview immensely and learned a lot.
Cathi
Thank you for this. As the layers are unpeeled, for me this is scarier and scarier. It goes so much deeper than just Chad and Lori and I have always felt that. Thank you to Girl On Fire and her husband, and to you Lauren for this.
Julie Holden
According to something pretty official looking that I found online, they do not condone it. "An updated section on medical and health care notes that “seeking competent medical help, exercising faith, and receiving priesthood blessings work together for healing, according to the will of the Lord.” Latter-day Saints “are discouraged from seeking miraculous or supernatural healing from an individual or group that claims to have special methods for accessing healing power outside of prayer and properly performed priesthood blessings. These practices are often referred to as ‘energy healing.’ Other names are also used. Such promises for healing are often given in exchange for money.”" https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/general-handbook-update-december-2020 But I'm not a member of the LDS church, so I don't know for sure!
courtenay seay
This was a fantastic perspective. Thank you so much for this.
Evelyn Yallen
That was my immediate thought as well.
Anissa Teree
This was a very insightful interview. As a member of the lds church I have seen elements of members looking for answers in "trusted" sources believing them to be church affiliated, much like self help seminars like lifespring, nexium and one i participated in that is. in utah they focus on loving vulernable people who have had life "life on them " and tell them how powerful they are and start changing how they see the world and then they send the individuals to gather and bring more people to them and paint the story of a new purpose for life. Critical thinkers are usually not as likely to get sucked in. thank you for your work on this.
Jana Smith
So, do we know who Joel is? Is he one of the players in this case? I personally haven't heard of him before. I am just trying to figure this all out. TIA
Cynthia Carter
Posted this at the beginning but thank you for what you covered financially . The question I wish someone would ask little Bear and all of these supporters is what money was involved . Did Julie have a subscription for people to donate to her ? In the other interview of the man mentioned in the document dump I am wondering was Chad's goal financial or getting a membership? Was money ever involved in any of these group recruiting Thank you for answering this question that I posted below. I posted before I listened to the entire interview The GTRF? maybe that was the membership. Also the other question was about the human trafficking group that seems to be a bit shady that is associated with raising funds. I have read that Julie donates her speaking fees to this organization.
ShaRee
Hmmm. I just read Eric’s response. I appreciate Eric’s answers, as far as owning his association with Chad and Julie. Can’t wait to listen!
Robin M Putnam
Dear Dr John, After listening to this interview, the manipulation, the grooming the weird hypnotism, is it possible that this is what happened to Lori? I am sickened by Lori and Chad and their actions, but for a mother to stand by while her children are murdered, Could she have been brainwashed? or hypnotized into these actions and beliefs?
Quinn Loy
That’s why Julie was excommunicated , isn’t it??
Sandra K.
Their beliefs are just new age teachings that have been incorporated into LDS.
Stacie
This was a great interview, and I, like others, felt very uneasy at the amount of grooming and just emotional abuse that has gone on in these circles. I really feel for these people. They are very brave for telling their story.
Taryn Hodge
I would like to know more about Julie Rowe's mental illness. I doubt she has multiple personalities (as stated), but I'm betting on her being Bipolar.
tora Johns
I'm probably the last person who should comment really, I'm not religious in any way, I just don't get it so to me all these people seem.., I want to say nuts but I'll use guilable instead. One word from Julie and I'd think she was 7 shades crazy. Just don't understand how these people get sucked into this religious mumbo jumbo. Every single one them says 'whaat' but carries on believing. I do hope Julie takes her meds again she's clearly not doing well off them. Thank you again Lauren for bringing another great insightful interview. X
Taryn Hodge
The talk of energy healing is very odd. I'm curious if the LDS church condones this?
CuriousinColorado
So interesting that Julie Rowe is on medication for mental issues. I really do wonder if most/all cult leaders don’t have something diagnosable that gives them illusions of grandeur.
Joanna Mulvaney
Thanks! It took me a lot of tries, let me tell you! 🤣🤣
Quinn Loy
You said this a lot more eloquently than I could lol
Joanna Mulvaney
This, and the interview with Shari made me very uneasy. They are very good and revealing interviews about Julie etc, but what it really elucidates is the wider context that allows this stuff to happen. While I have a strong urge to follow the aphorism “if you can’t say something nice keep your trap shut” I think that instinct is what has led to a lot of these incidents. I understand that faith is an important and comforting element of people’s lives and that there is a strong need for there to be a nucleus of community . On the other hand there is an extreme deficit in critical thinking going on.
